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[INDEX: Otto Muller "Russian" fake, origin questionable]

[INDEX: Otto Muller "Russian" fake, origin questionable] by vickie (stf4sel@aol.com)
Posted: Mar. 15, 2002 @ 10:19.
I have two lamps from a family estate in WV. I can't read the signature area it looks to be in a diffeent language. Both lamps have the same writing, but one is a little more ornate and has a star in center of lamp and on the knob, it also is a little more decorative with holes around base and has a brighter gold shiny surface. The base is about 12 inches high with glass stack it is 21 1/2 inches. The writing appears to be top line 18 then an emblem and 80 which i guess means done in 1880. Second line may be an n then amna then 4 odd looking letters or emblem. Line 3 TO MIOMEP and then a mark, Line 4 EPYINH which is a guess it is real light I would appreciate any information on these. Thank you Vickie

On Mar. 15, 2002 @ 12:14, Fil Graff (fgraff@comcast.net) wrote:
Vickie: The language (or at least the alphabet style) is Cyrillic (as in Russian). I have a strong suspicion these are relatively new lamps, despite the obfustcation in the hand-engraved (with a vibrating electric etcher) copy. Lamps of this basic design appear everywhere; I believe they are of Turkish origin. They have appeared with US railroad marks, phony US patents info and dates. Junk made to fool the gullible, but priced cheap when sold the first time by some unscrupulous retailer. Some of them even work (IE: make light when the kerosene-soaked wick is ignited), but as the construction is so flimsy, many don't. They don't seem to be sold as lamps, but brass decorator objects.
Being part of a "family estate" today (unless it is YOUR family) provides absolutely NO provenance. Dishonest Auctioneers (there are WAY to many of them!) routinely seed their offerings with this sort of thing. Buy cheap, sell dear. I know that's NOT what you wanted to hear, but I have to call them as I see them! This design lamp has been covered here before, but I can't say how the inquirie(s) appears titled in the Archives. :: Fil Graff ::
- On Mar. 15, 2002 @ 12:54, John in England (lightinter@aol.com) wrote:
  Fil - I thought I could discern the distinctive marks of an electric engraver, thus casting doubt on the authenticity and age of these lamps. These "cheats" also artificially stress their wares to make them look "old" and "antique" and many people without specialist knowledge can be easily fooled by them! We all have to acquire at least a rudimentary knowledge of antique lighting if we are to buy oil-lamps like this, otherwise let them alone altogether. John at Light International.
- On Mar. 16, 2002 @ 06:58, Dan (Maineknight@hotmail.com) wrote:
  This is a picture of one of a pair of lamps that I bought new, about 25 years ago as REPRODUCTIONS. I was told at the time that they were made in Pakistan, but there is no way of proving that. They have no identification marks on them at all. The wick riser knob has a blank silver metal insert and the flame spreader has a ornate and faintly embossed X on the top center portion. I paid all of $15.00 for the pair and I don't think that the value has changed much to this day......Dan
- On Mar. 16, 2002 @ 07:35, Neil Burrell (neilburrell@aol.com) wrote:
  Fil, I have an identical lamp, with the exception of the star on the spreader and winder. Mine are blank. It is of very light guage brass and the soldering is not of tradesman quality. The wick carrier does not have a rack of teeth to engage in the pinion of the winder; rather it has a serious of vertical holes to engage the teeth of the winder cog. I hope that makes sense. But at least someone had the foresight to include two additional rows of holes, lest one fail. The punchings in the base are unevenly spaced. It certainly has a distinct air of cheapness. I was informed that the writing is indeed Russian, and includes the words "Wonder Lamp" and "Berlin". It burns somewhat less than efficiently, but that could also be a wick problem in my case. Incidentally, in recent months eBay has seen a steady stream of these lamps, some with markings identical to this one. Strangely, I have not yet noticed one with a dent; so they can't have been in everyday use because the light guage metal would undoubtedly dent easily.
On Mar. 15, 2002 @ 12:43, Ara in Paris (Lumiara@aol.com) wrote:
Dear Friends, as I was born at the crossroad of several languages and several alphabets, I can tell you that this alphabet is indeed cyrillic and can even read the words "Otto Müller", "Berlin" and "Lamp". The monogram of Otto Müller of Berlin confirms this (I join the same on a wick knob I have. The chimney shape is unappropriate, but the rest looks quite good and old, even though cheap, certainly for the country-side Russian market. Best regards and enjoy lamping! Ara in Paris
- On Mar. 15, 2002 @ 16:18, Fil Graff (fgraff@comcast.net) wrote:
  Mon cher ami: OK, that DOES look like the Otto Müller logo. But how do you account for the electric engraver markings? OLD? This (at least the fount) still looks like the work of "Omar the Lamp Maker" somewhere in Turkey...maybe a real burner (do you recogniize the star on the FS and knob? I don't, but that isn't saying much!) If it got to West Virginia from "the country-side Russian market" without going through an antique shop buying from AA Imports or one of that ilk, I'd be surprised! That fount shape and the poor foot punching have turned up too many times not to be suspicious. :: Fil ::
  - On Mar. 15, 2002 @ 17:25, Alex Marrack (alexmarrack@aol.com) wrote:
    I have seen quite a few lamps with the same fount shape and crudely punched holes in the base, though never the writing, or even any ID at all. Most that turn up here have wick winders made of steel wire with a thin brass strip quite cleverly wound on spiral-fashion. i'd always assumed they were 'bargain-basement', but semi-old eg 50s or even 60s. I cannot believe they could be made as repro for the low prices they fetch, after all they are a proper centre draft lamp, even aladdin dont make those any more.
    As a side issue, I have recently seen a new CD lamp in a local ironmongers shop retailing at £28. It was decidedly nasty, all made of tin, a similar shape to a mod23 aladdin table lamp fount but smaller in all directions. no ID at all and when I asked the man behind the counter "where do these come from" he replied "from the wholesalers" which whilst true was not helpful. I thought it surprising that someone found it worthwhile to make a proper cd lamp, even if it was a nasty one, has anyone else seen one and know more. Alex.
    - On Mar. 15, 2002 @ 18:39, Chuck Hays (ponybike@hotmail.com) wrote:
      I have a good friend locally who grew up and went through her Bachelor's program in Soviet schools in Armenia. After the breakup, she came to the US to work on graduate studies. She says such lamps were usually the only light she had to do her studies by all those years. Electricity was nonexistent most of the time. So...might be a regular "using" lamp, but certainly not "vintage."
  - On Mar. 16, 2002 @ 12:55, Fil Graff (fgraff@comcast.net) wrote:
    A Message received from Ara off page:
    Dear friend,
    I don't know anything about the engraving techniques used to mark these lamps. Besides that, I suppose electric apparatus for handcrafts such as copper dishes and trays sold in "Omarland" as you imagine it exist for long decades now, and that fact wouldn't be enough proof for "fakes".
    Alex also seems to have the feeling that the lamps are authentic but recent.
    I learned recently that Hugo Schneider bought in 1909 shares in the Otto Müller company, and that the tooling was moved to Leipzig in 1931. The text I received from Germany doesn't mention other Hasag-mergers than Wild & Wessel and Otto Müller.
    Regards, Ara
    and my answer:
    Mon ami: Several things made me doubt the "authenticity" of the lamps. 1) The fount shape appears regularly in new merchandise sold here, with same few and poorly punched vents in the foot. Alex has confirmed this, even in England, in his last comment. 2) The existance of the lamps in an estate from West Virginia (not exactly a hotbed of importation of authentic RUSSIAN artifacts). 3) the very crude vibrating etcher tool markings on the fount. 4) the apparent 1880 date. 5) The cheaply made (Matador? type) burner with a marking unknown to us at this time...this same type of burner appears on the recent "fakes" we see here.
    Now it is entirely possible that Omar the Lampmaker (and I don't mean to slander the Turks!) IS (and/or was) producing lamps primarily to sell to the back-country Russian market, and that some smart US importer has contracted to have the maker do some completely fraudulent markings on special order lamps. Maybe this maker has been doing this Russian export business for YEARS. But WHY, if the lamp is authentic from ANY period, would the Otto Muller logo (and an 1880 date) be electro-etched on the FOUNT, when it is so obviously locally made? Even if "authentic" (IE, made for the Russian market), this detail makes it a fake in my mind!
    I am ALWAYS willing (and in the case of apparent fakes, even EAGER) to be convinced otherwise. Nothing offered so far has even made me wonder a bit if I'm wrong. If you have something that will change my mind, please fire away! Alex's "authentic, but recent" feeling for me translates into FAKE, because of the markings on the fount! Pure and simple deception, whether it be for some Russian peasant, or an American ignoramus collector! Maybe an "authentic" lamp for electricity-less area, as Chuck's comment suggests, but THESE are fakes! No more Muller than I am!
    :: Fil ::
    - On Mar. 20, 2002 @ 11:40, Ted Hinsdale (ehinsdale@gci.net) wrote:
      Greetings to All! Although it appears the origins of this item have been well covered in these answers I have owned one of these lamps and made the following observations; The Cyrillic script does read 'Wonder Lamp, Otto Muller, Berlin' with the date, certainly not correct, of 1880, OM mark between the pairs of numbers. Mine arrived with substantial 'patination' likely from having been used in an area near much high sulphur coal burning, which seems to speed the sulfate reactions of brass and give a dark chocolate color. Eastern Europe I believe is an area that uses substantial amounts of this. The amount of darkening I guessed to be consistent with 40-50 years of age. The characters on the bowl were poorly stamped, not engraved. My surmise is that these lamps were made in Berlin job shops after WWII for the Russian 'market'. The overall finish and quality is poor, solder joints crude and the lamp is of flimsy gage metal. I have also seen several on the major online auction service incorrectly described as 19th century artifacts. They are appearing regularly of late, likely imported from Eastern Europe as 'antique' Caveat Emptor, Indeed! Cheers!, Ted Hinsdale
On Mar. 23, 2002 @ 10:37, Fil Graff (fgraff@comcast.net) wrote:
Vickie: Noting the way that the information you asked for from the Guild Question and Answer page has been misused in your e-Bay posting of the item, you are BANNED from any further participation on the Q&A page. I personally hope that the web of lies you wove around these items strangles you! May your merchandise ALL turn out to be fakes, and may your dealings with the public all turn sour. Your are a disgrace to the trade of antique dealers.
:: Fil Graff, Guild Secretary ::